On a role: award-winning actor Cherry Jones on getting older, marrying younger, and playing a dude dyke' on Transparent. (2024)

In a recent piece for the New Yorker, writer Ariel Levy nails JillSoloways Transparent as "post-patriarchal television." Shedescribes Soloway as creating a radical, freeing work environment forher actors. She is a feminist director and a "doer." Shedoesn't let obstacles defeat her. She uses them to create a newaesthetic, a new commentary on sexuality, gender, and intimacy. Lastyear, Soloway won an Emmy for Best Directing in a Comedy Series forTransparent, and in season two she continues to spin out unique andunprecedented storylines, hiring who she wants to hire--which meansactual talented female actors with non-television faces and bodies. Whatshe has referred to as "dick candy" is not welcome on hershow. Its such a relief to women everywhere, and to great actors likeCherry Jones, who never in her career fit that bill.

Jones, who is to the stage what Meryl Streep is to film, is bestknown in American households as U.S. President Allison Taylor in the TVseries 24--a head of state in perpetual crisis, yet in possession of amoral, ethical, and emotional backbone. Jones won an Emmy for herportrayal, and she's since dabbled in small film roles and more TV,but to see Jones at her transcendent best, you must go to Broadway. Thusfar, her stage roles form a fascinating pantheon of fierce females:aviatrix, teacher, spinster, Southern belle, madam, saint, and nun--fromTennessee Williams to George Bernard Shaw to the best of contemporaryfeminist and lesbian playwrights. Throughout her illustrious career,Jones has picked up five Best Actress Tony Award nominations and twowins.

While she has not played an actual lesbian (until now), she hasalways been out and proud. When accepting her awards, she has thankedher partners: Mary O'Connor in 1995, when she won for The Heiress(which made Jones the first lesbian actor to thank her partner from thestage); and Sarah Paulson in 2005, when she won for Doubt. I'vebeen longing for the moment when Jones would truly blaze her way intothe lesbian Zeitgeist. Perhaps that moment has arrived with her role asa womanizing lesbian poetry professor in season two of Transparent.It's all happened'at a very unexpected point in my life,"Jones tells me about a week before her 59th birthday.

"Never did I think that I'd be playing a dude dykelesbian poetry professor and having all my scenes with Gaby Hoffman,with Jill Soloway;' she enthuses in a slightly Southern drawl.Jones, a Bible Belt gay hailing from Paris, Tenn., who miraculouslytranscended her small-town beginnings to become one of America'streasured thespians, says she has "so much respect" forSoloways vision, work, and methodology, which is helping torevolutionize the role of women in TV both behind and in front of thecamera.

"There is an episode that takes place at a fictional Michiganwomen's music festival," says Jones, "and you have neverseen so many different nude body types in your life. That's thething about Jill. Usually, if it's a beautiful television-lookingperson, they don't make the cut. She wants real people and realbodies and real women of all ages. And she really allows a great deal offreedom on set," says Jones. "There's a fair amount ofad-libbing around a very structured plot, but it feels in a way morelike being in rehearsal for a new play with a company that'screating the script themselves. It is so creative and so freeing."

It was also freeing for Jones to play Lesley Mackinaw, a sexy,swaggering older butch based loosely on Eileen Myles (also profiled inthis issue). Myles, notes Jones, is finally receiving mainstreamacclaim. "She seems to be everywhere right now. So this is aparticularly thrilling time to be playing Eileen." At the time ofwriting, Myles was everywhere indeed, both in the press, and datingTransparent creator Jill Soloway. Jones adds, reflecting on how shetailored her appearance to reflect Myles' own unique style, "Ieven had a haircut, which is as close as my hair would get toEileen's. I think the greatest thrill for me is that I get to wearthe most comfortable clothes I've ever worn in my career."

A little less thrilling to Jones was the inevitability thatshe'd have to get naked and participate in frank on-screen sex. Asan admirer of Transparent, Jones had watched the show with her wife,Sophie Huber, and wished she could nab a role on it. "And then loand behold, several months later I got a call that Jill wanted me to dothis. And so we Skyped, and she sort of gave me the arc of thecharacter, and I said, 'Let me think about this and I'll getright back to you.' And I thought about it and I knew I had to doit. And then my second thought was, I have to ask Jill if I have to doany on-camera sex scenes. Because I knew that would be a real problemfor me. I'm 59, from a small town in Tennessee, and Ijust--I'm from that quaint generation where if I have sex,that's with my partner," she laughs. "As an actress,there's only so much one can preserve that's sacred.

"I called Jill and I basically said, 'Will I be requiredto do any puss* licking or finger f*cking on-screen?" And there wasa pause and she said, 'Yeah.' And I said, 'Really?'And she said, 'Yeah!' And I said, 'Well, I cannot dothat.' And there was another pause and she said,'Really?' And I said, 'Really.' And she said,'Neither giving nor receiving?' And I said, 'Neithergiving nor receiving!"

While Jones knew that--in Soloway s hands--even explicit sex sceneswould further the plot and our understanding of the characters, theywere just not in her scope. Perhaps this dream role would elude herafter all. "Will you make out?" asked Soloway. "Oh,I'll make out all day and all night," agreed Jones.

In the end, the compromise might even have strengthened thestoryline, says Jones, but elsewhere the show is as bold as ever."I tell you, this season ... there was a sexual revolution in the'60s, and Jill is now including everyone who was left out of thatsexual revolution, in terms of being present and accounted for."

It delights Jones that Soloway is administering Transgender 101,"so that America can see what transgender people are up against.And that's what she explores, along with 50 other things, in thisseason. Even the places you'd think a transgender person shouldexperience sympathy or empathy--its not there. Everybody views them in aharsh or foreign light. And we're all in the same boat. Unless youhave a parent or a sibling who is transgender or somebody who is in thecommunity who has been transgender for a long time and is part of thecommunity ... unless that's the case, I just think transgenderpeople have to be the ballsiest people--pardon the pun--in the world. Ican't imagine what they're dealing with."

And as Jones discovered, Soloway uses sex as a lens through whichto view difference as not really different at all. "Jill is pushinga lot of buttons about sex. What she is saying at the end of the day is:These are people having consensual sex, living their lives, trying to begood neighbors, citizens, and it's not these people who are theproblem. It's those with intolerance who fuel violence and hatred.That's the danger, not transgender people. It's been verymoving watching them craft this season so that one has to question whatis dangerous. It's not sex between consenting adults. That is notwhat's dangerous."

The transgender rights movement and marriage equality are LGBTmilestones that Jones is astonished and delighted to be experiencingdirectly in her lifetime. "It blows my mind. Never did I think--noone my age ever thought--it would happen in our lifetime."

In August last year, Jones unexpectedly wed her film directorgirlfriend, Sophie Huber. They had met a few years earlier through ashared house in Los Angeles."We joke that I found Sophie onCraigslist," laughs Jones. Prior to this relationship, Jones hadnever wanted to marry. "I didn't want to do what heterosexualsdid. That was part of the freedom and joy [of being gay]: Youdidn't have to get married, you couldn't get married."But a few things had changed for Jones. She was older, and she'dlost both of her beloved parents in 2010, leaving her with only one realblood relation--her sister, Susan.

"I'm at that point in my life now where I guess, I hope,I'm more the person that I'll be 10 years from now. And I wasready to give my life fully to Sophie, and she was to me. And we boththought nothing would change, really, but of course it does--instantly.The moment you make that decision and you look at each other and yousay, 'Let's do this,' and you do, it drops down into thisdeeper more comforting place where you're just there for oneanother. You were not, the day before you married. I've had threewonderful and very distinct acts in my life with loves, and they'veeach enriched my life, and I hope and pray I have theirs, as well."

For Jones, getting older has meant getting better and truer, andthis might also be a theme of Transparent. After all, retired collegeprofessor Maura Pfefferman is in her late 60s when she comes to termswith her gender and her sexuality. And Jones is not the only seasonedactor to grace the new installment of the show; she is joined by thewonderful Anjelica Huston, who is 64. Soloway is determined to defy theindustry standard that makes work hard to come by after a woman reachesa certain age. 'After The Glass Menagerie, I had one more stagerole and then nothing," says Jones. "I had an offer here andthere, but they weren't good fits. What I understand, however, isthat in television, not film, older women are being offered any numberof fabulous roles. In the past, if you were an actress over 50, youcould play the psychiatrist, or the judge, or the granny. And now youhave Christine Baranski on The Good Wife, any number of fabulous rolesthat are popping up."

Outside of TV, Jones also thinks life gets better."Talk to anywoman over 50, no matter what the stresses in their lives, they'reable to deal with them in a way that they never could before. So many ofthe insecurities fall away, and you even get to that point with yourbody. In your 40s, you start to freak out because you see your youthending, but by the time you're in your 50s you've sort of madepeace with that, and that's a wonderful thing most women don'tanticipate. I think for most women there just comes a point in your 50sand 60s where you feel so much more comfortable in your looseskin."

But when I speak with Jones, she sounds like a giddy teenager inlove. We compare notes on how we--two mature lesbians firmly opposed tomarriage--finally gave way to our younger partners. "Lucky, luckyus," she says. Coincidentally, both our wives are 15 years ourjunior. "Sophie is 15 years younger, and she's one of thosepeople who have always loved older people and fallen in love with olderpeople." The same is true for my wife, and it took me some time toaccept it. "I think people are just wired differently" offersJones, "and everyone has a different attraction."

Jones is rapturous about Huber's physical beauty (Google herto see), her complexity, and her creative ability. She and Huber had"flirted around with the idea" of marriage, and then once theydecided, on a Friday, they were married on a Sunday. "We thought,Let's just do it, let's just get the paperwork. It wasn'tso much about a ceremony and vows. We just sort of wanted to make itlegal between us, in a way. And my sister in Tennessee was very upsetthat this was happening so suddenly, so at the last minute, Sundaymorning, we got her a plane ticket and she was at LAX by 11 AM.

"We had agreed to meet the officiant somewhere down in the[San Fernando] Valley, and we were almost there and realized we hadforgotten the marriage license! And so she followed us back up the hillto the house where I had moved into and where Sophie and I met. So wemarried literally on the spot where we first shook hands, under a lemontree, with those we love around us, and before we knew it we were sayingvows. And then we just had a wonderful all-night party with about 12 ofmy dearest friends who were in town, and it was gorgeous, it reallywas."

I tell Jones that I still have moments when I refer to my wife asmy partner or my girlfriend. Old habits are hard to break. "Sophieand I both have the same sort of knee-jerk reaction to the wordwife,'" says Jones. "She's Swiss-German, and,she'll be the first to tell you, slightly hom*ophobic. And being anold lesbian, the word 'wife' is bizarre to me, but I'veused it myself because it's a shortcut to say exactly who Sophie isto me. But we were joking, as all of us do who have trouble with theword 'wife,' about coming up with another term. And I randomlyjust made up the word 'hamet'--a made-up word--and Sophiesaid, 'What did you say?' And I said, 'You're my'hamet.' And she said, 'In my dialect, that means'home.' It means the place where you are from.'Isn't that extraordinary?"

It is. And it's also extraordinary that women of a certain ageare finding new homes in themselves and in others, even after lesssuccessful habitations--whether it be Jill Soloway with herculture-changing TV show, Maura Pfefferman making a late-in-lifetransition, Eileen Myles finding fame as a rockstar poet, or CherryJones enjoying a moment as a "blushing bride." At any age,women can make discoveries about love, work, and life.

Jones adds that a benefit of getting older is clarity about allthat has gone before, including the role of past loves. "They wereabsolutely necessary," she says of her two previous relationships."I would not have been the person I am today, and I surely neverwould have met Soph, if things had been different in any way"

While in culture, older women are experiencing a second coming ofa*ge, it's time for politics to catch up. Jones may have played afemale president, but the U.S. has yet to actually see one take herplace in the Oval Office. "It's always amazed me that in thecountries that you'd think of as the most chauvinistic in theworld, they've all had women leaders, from Indira Gandhi to GoldaMeir, Benazir Bhutto to Margaret Thatcher. But we are still a country ofpuritans in a way" she says.

Nevertheless, Jones feels a "groundswell" in America now."Seeing the word 'feminist come back is such a thrill. Thisunapologetic use of the word 'feminist'--in this country, itwas the kiss of death if you were a feminist. I do think that it camefrom the fact that it was identified as a cause of lesbians and somehowpromoting lesbianism. So no heterosexual woman wanted to be labeled afeminist. I do think part of the reason feminism is coming back into theculture is because of gay rights, and because people now are loving andappreciating their gay family members and neighbors, and we've justtaken a light-year kind of jaunt. We've taken these huge strides soquickly, and I think this has affected why feminism has taken off.You've got 'transgender' and 'feminism right now oneveryone's lips."

And after this season of Transparent, with its unwavering femalegaze, its post-patriarchal aesthetic, and its liberal community, I hopeCherry Jones will finally be the name on every lesbians lips.

Caption: Cherry Jones plays a lesbian poetry professor inTransparent

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